My good friend Samuel Nesan called me a few months ago to ask if the APOSL science club would like to debate about evolution. I immediately said yes. We met for dinner and talked about it. I envisioned a chance to engage creationists and also to tell them about evolution.
However, when I approached the rest of the group, they were not too enthusiastic about it. They felt that by having a debate, they would be agreeing that there was something to debate about i.e. creationism had merit or there was still doubt about evolution.
In the end, it was left to Dr Kok Sen Wai to sort out the mechanics of the “debate” with Samuel and they both agreed to change it to a dialogue.
The creationists were represented by Mark (a young pastor) and Silas (a lay pastor). The APOSLs were Howe (a Christian who rejects creationism) and Sen Wai (an agnostic).
Silas opened the dialogue by stating that creationists are not science deniers but they disagree with Natural Selection. He gave examples of how small chihuahuas cannot reproduce great Danes. He touched on how the finches in the Galapagos all came from the finch family since they were all finches. He stated that mutation always resulted in bad offspring such as a two headed turtle and mutant flies with no wings, and he believes that there are no positive mutation. Dogs will reproduce dogs and cats will reproduce cats and never the other way around.
Then, it was Howe’s turn to present the case for evolution. He also brought up the Galapagos finches and said, while they came from a single finch, they have since evolved so much that they have become separate specie and cannot interbreed anymore. He also gave examples of dinosaurs becoming birds – scales became feathers, and how the whale has a pelvic bone and residual hind leg bones. And he presented transitional specie examples. He ended by comparing the chromosomes of apes and humans. Apes have 24 chromosomes while we have only 23 – because 2 chromosomes have fused into 1, thus proving we are related to the ape.
After that, both teams were giving a chance to answer the other team’s questions. Sen Wai tried to explain why and how testicles came to be located on the outside of some specie and proceeded to draw something on the whiteboard. I remarked that he was going to draw a penis and everyone broke out in laughter. He didn’t. He drew a simple diagram to show how the testicles which are originally located inside make they way down and out of the body.
Silas then answered the whale’s pelvic bone by explaining that it is there for it to give birth, and went on to talk about the human appendix. While most doctors will remove it, he argues it was made for a purpose.
Sen Wai countered by explaining the use of the appendix is in dispute and when ruptured can kill the patient.
The session moved on to topics about soft tissues, and DNA evidence. I did not understand them enough to make notes.
Then, they moved to the topic of the age of the Earth. Silas believes the Earth is around 10,000 years old (young Earth creationist) while his partner, Mark, believes God made the Earth 10,000 years ago but magically made it to be old (mature Earth creationist). Both Howe and Sen Wai were in agreement that our planet is 4.5 billion years old.
The question of dating specimens came up. Sen Wai explained how scientists use different methods of dating to arrive at a conclusion while Silas pointed out that Carbon 14 dating is a lousy method to use.
There were many questions asked and each side seemed to answer them confidently. Silas brought up the dinosaur carving in a temple in Cambodia which Sen Wai answered well.
Mark was asked to comment on a simple question and he gave a very roundabout answer which in the end did not answer the question. He reminded me of myself when I was a creationist. When faced with a problematic question, I too looked for answers from various sources. Each source would only give a partial answer so I ended up knowing the partial answers but not the real answer to the question. The answers I had always led to more questions and problems without presenting an actual answer. In the end, I had to concede that there were just no answers that would fit and accommodate the bible while still be correct.
At 10.30pm, Samuel, who was moderator for the evening, wrapped up by announcing that there would be another session for a dialogue between his church group and APOSL. I look forward to that.
Pepper's World. Notes to myself. 